Episode 16 — “Captain Kirk vs. Captain Picard — Round 2”

It’s part two!

Dr. Jayce, Ben, and Steve continue their conversation about what they love (and hate) about Star Trek.

We’d love to hear from you about YOUR favorite captains, YOUR favorite series, YOUR favorite ships, YOUR favorite crew! E-mail us at podcast@strangersandaliens.com. If you’d like, you can even record a short MP3 (try to keep it around 3 minutes long). We’d love to use it in the show for our mailbag segment!

Next episode: a weekend of release episode about The Avengers movie!

~ Ben








10 responses to “Episode 16 — “Captain Kirk vs. Captain Picard — Round 2””

  1. RC Avatar

    Good conclusion!

    My only comment is a face off between the two crews in unfamiliar ships;

    I would say that the Original Series crew would have the advantage. The TNG crew’s intelligence is great, as long as they are on familiar ground. The Original crew, used to always pushing their ship beyond normal limits and constant defeat of the impossible would certainly give them the advantage on an unfamiliar ship.

    If we want to bring this into real world examples, lets jump back to 1940’s era Germany and United States. Germany at the time had remarkable technology. Brilliant. However, it required certain conditions for that machinery to operate well. True, they could create conditions for that machinery to operate well, but in general they were poor at adaptability.

    The United States at the time, while not having the foremost technology, had ample amounts of know-how. The United State’s forces were excellent at improvisation.

    The same comparisons I think could be made between TNG and the Original Series. TNG crew, intelligent? Certainly, and top of the heap on their own ground. They both walk onto foreign ships? The TNG crew will still be reading technical manuals when the Original Series will have their ship on the go and have instinctual assessments of their ship.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Good point, RC. Part of Kirk’s appeal to me is that he was able to take down “superior” foes. But, while Kirk may have been able to win against the Doomsday machine, he didn’t have to take on the Doomsday machine with Picard at the helm.

      I do believe that Kirk and company could stand their ground against Picard and company in their respective ships, by pulling some creative and insane stunts, but the power of Picard’s ship would give him and his crew the time to figure out a more methodical way to take down Kirk and crew.

      Of course, all this talk takes us to one of the many fatal flaws of Generations. (We can go ANYWHERE in time to stop the bad guys, and where do we choose to go? Moments before he activates his doomsday rocket machine? Why not just go with Kirk back to where Kirk’s time, where the BAD GUY was but doesn’t have a doomsday weapon, and stop him THERE?) We want to see Kirk doing what he does best . . . if he’s going to die on a bridge, it should be the bridge of the Enterprise. Somewhere, in an alternate universe, there is a version of this movie in which the Enterprise crew ALL die . . . but Picard uses the Nexus thing to bring back Kirk . . . and they come back to the Enterprise. This time, the same events start to play out, but they know it’s going to happen. They abandon ship, Picard confronts Malcolm McDowell on the planet while Kirk (and maybe one other crew member — Riker, perhaps?) stays on the ship (“I’ve had my run . . .” he says). Kirk wins the day going down with the ship in a blaze of glory . . . Picard wins the day in a fist fight debate with the bad guy . . . and we get to see Kirk die the way he lived. His grave is the Enterprise. Not HIS Enterprise, but an Enterprise.

      Even better — kill them BOTH off in this movie. Kirk and Picard go down with the ship to save billions of lives. Let Riker inherit Enterprise and bring on a few of the younger guest stars who appeared in the series to infuse the movies with a younger crew . . .

      I still believe that All Good Things is the best Next Generation movie.

      Heh. There’s a blog series: how to fix the movies.

  2. RC Avatar

    That would have been spectacular. I think it’s hard for any movie studio or IP owner to put an end to any lucrative entity. I think it stops a lot of movies from truly being great.

    Of course there’s the third X-Men… but that was just plain weird.

    Of course, out of all of these we’ve left out the new Trek movie. When we talk about competent crews, we will always run into the lack of story development of the original series due to contemporary television of the time. However, we can see exactly what was done with the new movie.

    An awesome crew? To say the least. I think the new Trek movie is a great example of what the original crew would look like through today’s lens… because that’s what it is.

    One of my favorite parts of the new movie is Spock’s reaction to Kirk to find them back aboard. The incredulity was perfect as was the unexpected solution to a problem. Kirk’s unyielding drive to not accept a no-win brought him through that.

    Has there been any word about a new Trek series? Seems like they could start a new series and do well.

  3. Ben Avatar

    Abrams is against a new Trek TV series. I can understand why, but it doesn’t mean I like it.

    There HAS been some pretty big spoilers leaked about the new movie, though.

    But here’s my question — how would Kirk or Picard’s crew have dealt with being thrown across the galaxy instead of Voyager. I guarantee, Kirk and his crew would have been back before the end of the first episode.

  4. Dr. Jayce Avatar

    I’d love a new TV show!

  5. Hank Harwell Avatar
    Hank Harwell

    I finally got around to listening to this series. Something to keep in mind regarding the leadership styles of Kirk vs. Picard is that when TOS was shot, it was only about 20 years after WWII. Shows at this time focused on the captains of the ship (or commanders of troops, whatever) and elevated their stature over the contributions of others under them. In the 80’s, when TNG was shot, was more in a time when thoughtful, collaborative approach to leadership.

    Also in a head-to-head all-out fight between Kirk and Picard, my money is on Kirk. Why? Kirk cheats!

    1. Ben Avatar

      Hank, that’s a point for Kirk! Between Kirk’s cheating and the FACT that when looking to refresh the Trek franchise, Paramount went to Kirk . . . not Picard . . . I think that puts Kirk in a very strong winning position.

  6. Don Ensign Avatar

    I’m really an old guy. I remember watching the Original ST series in my later teens. The breakout character in the series was not Captain Kirk but it was Mr. Spock. While Kirk was the Captain Spock was the character that made you came back to watch the show week after week. Kirk was basically a cowboy. Spock had deep character struggles between his Vulcan highly rational nature and his human emotion. This “strangeness” of nature, if you will, made Spock very compelling. Occasionally Kirk would examine his nature like the episode where he is spit into a passive good Kirk and a decisive bad Kirk but Spock had to struggle with that through the entire series (that episode came close to Christian metaphysics but they got it wrong). Ye, Spock and McCoy were Kirk’s rational mind and passionate nature but Spock was developed into a much more rounded character. I contend the Original ST series was much more about Spock than Kirk–even though Kirk was the top rated character and arguable had more screen time.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Actually, the case could be made — in a much longer post than I have time to write tonight — that the entirety of Star Trek is about Spock. Spock was in the first episode ever made and that same character was also in the LAST “prime universe” episode ever made — Abrams Star Trek movie.

      Look at it like this: the other series put Spock in his place in that movie. Next Generation put Spock on Romulus, trying to reunify Vulcans and Romulans (and the Enterprise series was, largely, about that rift). TNG and Deep Space Nine also positioned Romulus in its place politically and economically. When Star Trek: Nemesis rolled around, the aftermath was that the Romulans were in a state of political turmoil and, by extension, military and economic turmoil as well.

      Then Abrams Trek becomes about Spock trying to help the Romulans and failing, so the lone survivor is going to make him suffer. But, instead, he becomes the catalyst for a younger version of him to buck up and become what his potential should be.

      Voyager doesn’t fit into any of this, of course . . . but Voyager doesn’t fit into much of anything. It just is what it is.

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